Talk:White Mage Guide by Gisselle
Sub Job Selection I read upto "/em laughs" on Blue Mage and stopped, as far as im concerned anyone not willing to atleast give reasons for scoffing at a sub job selection, in a guide, isnt worth reading. - Sye 18:21, 22 February 2007 (EST) Ok, for me it was obvious that its no option. Give me reasons to consider it, and i am the first to change my mind. At the current state i do not see even an idea of a setup where bluemage sub would be interesting. But if you don't like the style, well ok, thats discussable. --Gisselle 11:12, 20 July 2007 (CDT) I like /BLU in the early levels (probably up to 30) for Cocoon and Metallic Body and the protection they give while you and your tanks are learning about hate control. Plus you can get nice MND boosts with the right spells equipped. --Tsakiki 12:25, 21 August 2007 (CDT) So like.. for Summoner sub, sure they can use "bloodpacts" (check spelling :)), but also, Earthen Ward is level 38, so it can't be subbed in, sadly. But it is very invaluable in Dynamis areas where MP refresh statues come about. Warrior sub comes in handy in cutthroat situations of claiming NMs on pop. Dragoon sub would give Accuracy bonus, and access to the popular Wyvern Earring with 5% haste. Corsair sub would be ideal in low level PTs where you want to give a party boost, just like Bard sub, but isn't really very effective as having the actual job available. Lastly, with Red Mage sub, WHM already has enfeebling skill, so the extra spells that Red Mage has access to can help. /cheers 16:07, 21 August 2007 (CDT) Hmm... i differ in the view on how useful that is. But i took your comments into consideration in the guide. --Gisselle 05:05, 25 August 2007 (CDT) It is incorrect that you recieve Clear Mind trait from BLM sub. You recieve higher levels of it natively as WHM main than from BLM sub, and 2 copies of a lower version do not stack. As far as MP issues go all BLM sub gives is Conserve MP, and I can't quote you a source, but it seems fairly apparent that in situations where you will be casting many spells (in terms of spells cast per minute) conserve MP will net you more saved MP over time, whereas if your casting is limited (say there's a RDM that takes care of most of the buffing/debuffing and you're only casting cures) the auto-refresh will net more MP per unit time. As for your discussion of RDM sub, it seems you are under the assumption that all parties will have a RDM or BRD or other job that can dispel. Not all PT setups will be ideal and it's good to have the versatility to fill in the gaps left behind. Regarding BST sub there seems to be a bug that's been present ever since the job was implemented, where the effectiveness of charm is not capped to the subjob cap. As such I know of several BST mains who solo their other jobs /BST and are able to charm mobs with the same sucess rate as a BST main.--Tarundi 13:24, 10 September 2007 (CDT) Added the BST stuff, removed the clear mind on blm and commented on RDM --Gisselle 17:18, 10 September 2007 (CDT) The BST thing isn't a bug. Charm is simply based on your main job level and your CHR, as far as I can tell. /BST works for mage jobs because they do have access to a number of +CHR items that are classified as light armor but were most likely intended solely for BRDs. --Ctownwoody 22:11, 24 January 2008 (UTC) Hmm.... It does not really matter if it is a bug or not for this guide. It does not really help a WHM anyway. But the mechanics at the current time for sure suggest that it is a bug, since every other subjob ability which depends on the level of the job is capped at the subjob level. But usually the skills are either level independend or they are additional traits coming in higher levels, so .... Well, whatever, we all know the saying: "It is not a bug, it is a feature" ... lol...--Gisselle 02:21, 4 March 2008 (UTC) White Mage & Melee (note: I'm just editing this. This is not right about WHM, WHM can outparse almost anything in game with some good melee gear and club maxed out. Sure meleeing in party is not the best thing but an NM will be fine if you clear it up with your party. I've done a hexa strike of 1.2k dmg on an IT so don't say WHM can't melee. At low levels, not really, at high lvls, oh yeah. Just wanted to clear that up so WHM's wouldn't get discouraged and abandon their powerful melee ability. Square Enix even said they wanted to see more WHM melee. Besides, why give a WHM a hammer if not to use it?) --Meepichi I took the above off your Guide and placed it here. No one should be editing others personal guides and any additional ideas should be placed on the Talk Page. --Nynaeve 23:43, 25 October 2006 (EDT) First of all, a thanks to Nynaeve for moving this out of the guide. On Meepichi - Yes i stick to that what i wrote in my guide. WHM = no melee. Period. Now if you are just whacking up some crap, sure, you can do lots of damage. But on the IT there is already the question of who is tanking it, and who is covering the cures. Unless you have a godlike ninja who takes absolutely no hits, someone has to cover you job, because you are meleeing. I have seen about 50 WHMs claiming to be able to melee and to cure, and i have seen 50 fail. Result was always death, unless the party had someone to cover the lacking of the WHM. Now of course there will be 100 WHM claiming to be the number 51 in my series to prove me wrong. You even might be right, but that will not change my opinion, that it generally does not work in a serious fight. --Gisselle 23:43, 9 November 2006 (EST) Out of all the situations I decided to pull off the melee and cure on VT-IT, I only did it 3 times. First time was in the low 30s doing a mandragora trio in yhoator with rdm and blm. The other two times came with while I was in the late 60s-early 70s with the mob at very low health and the ninja tank one shotted with a certain TP attack - I simply equip my melee gear and popped off Icarus Wing / Hexa Strike, which was usually enough to put mob out of misery or to start light for a thief if it didn't. I usually focus on healing, as I got another 75 job if I want to melee, and the only time I melee and heal if I get in a sea puk duo with an 75 ninja. --Ayrlie 07:56, 10 November 2006 (CST) Yes Ayrlie, you describe situations like i meant, except for the party one with the low health mob. Of course this is a situation where the melee makes sense, but thats very rare. So for standard party situations i still stick to it - stick to your healing, leave the melee to jobs made for it. And just because you can use a club you do not have to be in melee (Meepichi's argument). Same argument would count for the WHM holy nuker damage dealer. After all you got banish and holy, why not be damage dealer?. That this is not the strength of a white mage is pretty clear i would say. --Gisselle 11:13, 6 December 2006 (EST) I think it is noteworthy to mention the situations where it would be useful and give a fair assessment. Is there any 6 person exp/merit PT where it'd be beneficial to melee? Probably not, however the extra damage is notable when the PT size shifts to like 2-4 people, assuming you have the proper gear to do so. Most notably for me is 3-4 person assaults with RDM WHM NIN or some similar set up where you'll be getting refresh for your MP and downtime isn't an issue. Hexa Strike is an extremely powerful WS and our melee potential is limited only by the melee equipment we can wear. In a 4 person leujuam sanctum I ended up doing about 27% of the damage, there was a BLM on sleep duty so his nuking was cut down. In Operation Desert Swarm I easily soloed one of the scorps, though that's more tanking ability than DD as what I meant is I could've held it indefinitely but others defeated theirs sooner and came to finish off mine. I disagree with an earlier comment that a well geared WHM can outparse other well geared DD's, but a well geared WHM can outparse a poorly geared DD job. Well geared Hexa will out damage many other job's WS on non-IT mobs, or perhaps on IT with berserk and attack food with o-hat and reverend mail. In particular I have yet to see a savage blade out damage my hexa on mobs T or lower. Melee is most certainly not viable before hexa I would say, and realistically before 75 because you get blessed and walara turban for 15% equip haste, throw in a swift belt and if you do good in Nyzul Isle, a Goliard Saio with Haste spell and you've got some seriously fast TP, and you can macro in STR gear and such for WS. By no means am I saying that in most situations it would be good to melee, but there are situations where it is viable and I believe it should be given a fair hearing.--Tarundi 13:08, 10 September 2007 (CDT) The situations you describe are situations way off anything near optimal, or are very special mission situations. Generally, whm is not a melee. --Gisselle 17:16, 10 September 2007 (CDT) I agree with the writer of the guide WHM r NOT dd's or tanks but i also agree with the arguement that whm can melee but only at certain points. I've been lvl sync partying my whm in yuhtunga and in 1 prty i was in we were flyin thru mandys in like 4-9 hits so i asked if i could skill up my club they agreed and we still flew thru them and then we started stronger things and i quit meleeing cuz ive seen and herd how that goes and we continued to fly thru so i agree with both arguements. Shields You might want to include Tortoise Shield in the list of shields, I'll use mine when I get to 30 for the +MND it gives. Also, PLDs can't equip Genbu's Shield, so it will probably be RDMs and BRDs getting it first instead. --Tsakiki 12:25, 21 August 2007 (CDT) Changed, thank you for he input --Gisselle 15:41, 21 August 2007 (CDT) /pup @ 75 can be pretty nuts. you need to take pup to 40 or 41 first though to unlock the whm head but it is basically a free backup whm. and while i wouldn't use it for a merit party, i have seen it used in BCNM, and other areas with good success. not a bad option to keep in your bag of tricks. for reference, im not a whm myself just an something i saw other whm's use effectively under the right conditions. Grimwald, Shiva --Grimwald 15:47, 20 December 2007 (UTC) Taken into consideration, thank you for the input. --Gisselle 03:07, 24 December 2007 (UTC) i may just be temporarily blind but i do not see seers equipment under gear section Iamtinytim 02:02, December 18, 2009 (UTC)Tinytim Server Remora legs and feet are still not done to my shame, so i have not considered seers there. hands and body they are mentioned, the crown is just giving INT so no option for whm. Seers is often used and even as often not the best option you got. --Gisselle 22:07, August 10, 2010 (UTC)